Renters Regain Control and a New Rent Price Forecast

Dave:
As traders, hire costs and hire development are a number of the first issues that you just take a look at while you’re analyzing a deal, contemplating a market, or simply making an attempt to determine what sort of investments you’re going to make. And for a very long time, hire development was comparatively secure and predictable, however not for the final couple of years. Today, we’ve got to pay a lot nearer consideration to hire developments with all the provision that is happening, all of the adjustments to demand within the market. If we wish our investments to carry out to their peak potential, we have to perceive this stuff. And we are able to’t simply take a look at one prime line nationwide quantity. Now we have to take a look at the regional and market developments and perceive actually in our subsection, our area of interest of the true property investing world, what is going on as a result of hire performs such an enormous function within the efficiency of our traders. So right this moment, that’s what we’re gonna be digging into.
Hey, BiggerPockets listeners, it’s Dave right here for our weekly Larger information episodes, and it’s been type of some time since we talked about what’s going on with hire developments. So I needed to convey on an knowledgeable to assist us perceive what adjustments have been happening, how issues are transferring as we get in direction of the tip of 2024 right here. And so we’re bringing on Igor Popov, he’s the Chief economist with condominium listing. They produce some actually attention-grabbing insightful experiences. So I’m wanting to convey on Igor to speak about before everything, the, I’ll maintain it quick, however latest historical past of rents and what’s been happening over the past couple of years. How the latest increase in multifamily provide has impacted rents and what’s occurring right this moment in 2024 that can flip our consideration to the long run. And discuss how as provide peaks and new development stops coming on-line within the subsequent couple of years, like what’s gonna occur to rents then?
And since we’re recording right here on September 18th, and identical to an hour in the past we heard that the Fed minimize rates of interest by 50 foundation factors. We’ll get into that a bit bit, however to be trustworthy, nonetheless processing all of that data. And I do know for some individuals speaking about hire developments and development can really feel like type of this nerdy data-driven matter, but it surely doesn’t must be. And Igor actually does an incredible job of translating numbers and developments. It’s very clear takeaways that may allow you to in your investing profession and your investing choices. And I feel you’re gonna be taught a ton from our dialog. So let’s get into it. Igor, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. Thanks for becoming a member of us.

Igor:
Hello, Dave. I’m actually glad to be right here. Thanks for having me on.

Dave:
I’m excited to have you ever. We’re gonna discuss and dig into hire development, hire developments. Mm-Hmm.

Igor:
<affirmative>,

Dave:
All of that great things that our viewers, I’m positive could be very keen to listen to from you about. However first, inform us a bit bit about your background and your work at House Record.

Igor:
Yeah, completely. I’m the Chief economist and head of product analytics at House Record, I ought to say. House listing is a web-based, uh, rental market. So for those who’re a a property supervisor, landlord, you’ll be able to listing a, a, a rental. When you’re a renter, you’ll be able to have a curated and a search expertise to attempt to discover the place that’s best for you. And I lead our inner analytics, but additionally our, our analysis group, uh, that sort of has an outward going through view and tries to know what’s occurring out there and likewise attempt to be sure that the info that we’re seeing whereas we function our platform sort of will get into the fingers of all the, the people who want it most to make choices. Um, and so I’ve a extremely enjoyable job. I get to speak to sensible individuals all day and mess around with lots of fascinating housing market information. And, you understand, once I, once I began on this function, I had no thought simply how bonkers the housing market within the US would <snicker> would, would, would turn into, uh, as we obtained into 2020 and and the following years, I feel the demand for actual time, uh, rental information simply shot by means of the roof. And so yeah, we discovered ourselves in a really lucky place to have the ability to kinda present that to a number of the outdoors world.

Dave:
Yeah. So I’m keen to listen to what is going on. However earlier than we get into that, may you assist us simply set the stage and supply some context for what’s, quote unquote regular hire development <snicker>? Like for those who Proper, had been to explain a bland 12 months of hire development and hire costs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what would you count on?

Igor:
You already know, after we had been residing our lives in 20 17, 20 18, 20 19, we didn’t consider these as notably regular years that we’d check with as, as regular for, uh, for a while afterwards. However from a rental market perspective, um, you understand, rents, hire development hovered between three to 4% yearly, sort of outpacing broader inflation by only a tad. And there was some actually attention-grabbing regional variation, but it surely wasn’t dramatic. You already know, sort of sizzling markets grew 5 to 7% a 12 months. Cool. Markets may develop, you understand, 2% a 12 months, perhaps 1% a 12 months. Lease development was actually sluggish. The one locations with actual double digit hire development can be small sort of fracking or oil cities. When one thing dramatic occurred within the power sector, they’d have an enormous swing. Uh, come 2020 when the pandemic hit, every thing actually modified in a single day. And rapidly we discovered that these actual time shocks in demand may have dramatic swings on the housing market.
2020, we noticed, you understand, rents actually nostril dive in a number of the, the, the cities the place, you understand, location was on the highest premium, proper? New York, you’re there since you wanna be near every thing in New York, San Francisco, you wish to be there since you wish to be near, uh, superb jobs within the superb, uh, environment. Abruptly when the shelter in place economic system took maintain, proximity wasn’t a superb factor anymore. That value premium primarily evaporated. And we noticed hire declines in a number of the, probably the most, you understand, excessive, extremely populated US cities, uh, on the order of 20 to 25% in locations like New York and San Francisco and, and, and Boston. So, you understand, I feel that was the second, Dave, after we needed to sort of throw out the analysis agenda <snicker> that we had deliberate for 2020 and see, okay, how do we actually focus in on what’s happening proper now?
However what’s much more attention-grabbing is what occurred subsequent, as a result of as, as lots of your listeners I feel are, are deeply conscious of that sort of created this coiled spring within the housing market, so to talk, that simply let loose all this power in beginning within the second half of 2020. However actually going into 2021, after we noticed this large increase in rents, our, our hire index confirmed hire grew 18% in 2021. Wow. Once more, unprecedented from a pre pandemic understanding of, of the US rental market. After which within the final couple years, we’ve actually been monitoring a, a cooling market ever since. Rates of interest began to rise, financial uncertainty began to essentially take maintain, and a few of that feeling of invincibility that some elements of the economic system felt in 2021 began to dissipate. In order that’s nonetheless the market we’re in right this moment. However, um, you understand, as, as we’re speaking, the Fed simply introduced, uh, 50 level, uh, 50 foundation level minimize. So, uh, it’s definitely nonetheless a dynamic market. We haven’t seen a quote unquote regular interval of hire development within the 2020s to this point.

Dave:
Thanks for offering that context, Igor. I simply needed to name out that while you discuss cities like New York seeing double digit, 18%, 20% decreases how irregular that’s, even while you look again to durations of financial issue, like the good monetary disaster, identical double digit hire development. Uh, right me if I’m improper, Igor principally doesn’t occur. So like we had a, a extremely vital shift in development, um, and a severity of, of decline that hasn’t occurred. Have the markets that noticed these declines like New York, have they since rebounded?

Igor:
Sure. They, they’ve, um, some extra, extra strongly than others. New York Metropolis had the, the, the wildest set of swings as a result of it, it was within the prime two markets when it comes to hire declines in 2020 and truly within the prime two markets of hire development in 2021. So I feel for those who had been a New York renter a pair years in the past, you had been simply massively confused and confused. Um, uh, San Francisco has had a little bit of a, of a slower restoration as a result of a lot demand obtained swept away within the distant work, uh, acceleration from sort of San Francisco as a, as a tech hub. However everybody actually rode the hire rebound of 2021. However this previous 12 months has actually seen much more geographic range in what’s occurring with hire developments. The pandemic additionally introduced with it sort of this u-turn away from what we had been seeing when it comes to urbanization and demand simply flocking to downtown central enterprise districts. I feel renters voting with their toes are, are, are trying way more at sort of suburbs and locations with extra leg room on the margins as nicely. So there’s been a rebound, however nothing in comparison with the sort of increase that we’ve seen in locations like Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, sort of early within the early within the pandemic,

Dave:
The from city to extra suburban demand. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it sort of caught me off guard. I assume every thing concerning the, the pandemic caught me off guard, however I, particularly as an investor, type of had this very nearly stupidly simplistic view of the place to purchase actual property throughout this time was investing in Denver. I used to be like, the nearer I could possibly be to downtown, the safer the funding. Is the listing much less dangerous? It’s. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and I’ve to say, as an investor, it’s gotten more durable to choose neighborhoods as a result of suburbia is simply extra plentiful.

Igor:
Sure.

Dave:
And it’s not like, you understand, it’s simpler to love draw concentric circles round downtown and be like, that is gonna be good hire development and a bit bit additional out can be nonetheless good, however a bit bit weaker after which weaker after which weaker. And now it’s like making an attempt to guess which of those suburbs is gonna see pop off, which of them are gonna undergo is tremendous onerous. I imply, this can be a lengthy shot, however do you’ve any, are there any developments to, like what sorts of suburbs are inclined to see probably the most development?

Igor:
You already know, when it comes to the, the sorts of locations too actually about these sort of alternatives? I feel that the main target actually shifted from being about proximity to work, to being about proximity to facilities sort of broadly outlined, proper? I feel there’s been an actual untethering, which is only a actually elementary shift, an actual vital untethering from the place you select to, to stay and the place you select to work, proper? So 30% of totally employed Individuals, workdays are occurring at house proper now. That’s not simply of us which are totally distant and, and work solely on Zoom, however lots of people have a minimum of some days that they’re working from house. You add all of it up, that’s 30% of, of totally employed days. And even these which are going into an workplace, we’re seeing, uh, we’ve been monitoring this lengthy development of a rise in tremendous commuting.
Persons are simply residing farther from, from work they usually’re, they’re ready to do this. Perhaps they don’t must go in as usually, so that they’re sort of untethering this determination. And I feel query turns into way more about, okay, if I don’t must be near work, what do I wish to be near? Is it regardless of the sorts of facilities that the massive millennial technology likes to be close to? Is it, is it colleges? Is it, uh, city facilities in suburban settings, uh, like, you understand, the good breweries and eating places? So I, I feel that what I’d look in direction of and the, the, in fact there’s no crystal ball, there’s no onerous and quick rule, however I feel there’s been a shift away from simply work proximity primarily to consider it as play proximity or, or proximity to the opposite issues that you just wish to, uh, sort of energy, energy your life. So I feel having a thesis round what that appears like and why a neighborhood has that sort of draw can be actually compelling and I feel needed since you’re proper, it has turn into a way more kinda multidimensional guessing recreation of the place future renters will, will wish to be.

Dave:
That’s an incredible synopsis. Thanks, Igor. I, I feel it’s actually vital for our viewers to listen to what Igor simply stated about having a thesis as a result of it, you’ll be able to’t simply actually guess and this, that what works in a single metro space suburb won’t work in one other one. For instance, you understand, I used to stay and put money into Denver and, you understand, proximity to trails or proximity to out of doors actions was actually common. I’ve lots of associates I, I grew up in, in New York, and so what you had been speaking about these city experiences in suburban environments, I do know like all my associates who’re transferring outta the town, that’s what they prioritize. So you actually must, to know your market and give you your individual thought of what’s gonna drive demand. And for those who stay in that market, hopefully that needs to be onerous as a result of it’s like, the place do you wanna stay? The place do your mates wanna stay? The place are all of your individuals transferring?

Igor:
Proper?

Dave:
And you may type of create the inspiration of your thesis primarily based on simply your individual private experiences.

Igor:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Dave:
All proper. Time for a fast break after which we’ll be again with extra greater information with Igor Popov, thanks for sticking with us. Let’s leap again in with Igor. Igor, thanks for type of serving to us perceive the final couple years. How would you describe 2024 up to now when it comes to the rental market?

Igor:
Uh, 2024 has actually been a, a shift again to a market the place the renter has a bit extra management and much more, extra choices than definitely what we, what we noticed a few years in the past. Um, the massive story, the massive narrative is round a brand new wave of multifamily provide hitting the market this 12 months and subsequent. And I feel that’s actually, though that’s sort of simply in largely class a largely multifamily, uh, it’s nonetheless actually sort of setting the tone for what’s occurring all throughout the totally different segments of the rental market. And simply to sort of give some context and put some numbers to it, we entered this 12 months with one million models below development all through the US for multifamily models alone. You already know, trying again 10 years in the past, that quantity was extra like 300,000, uh, coming into 2014. Now we’ve obtained one million models within the pipeline coming into this 12 months with a minimum of half of them hitting in 2024. And so I feel that’s actually been the first storyline that’s sort of shaping how lots of Individuals are perceiving the rental market, each on the investor facet and on on the render facet.

Dave:
Thanks for offering that replace. And I feel the, the headline is actually attention-grabbing ’trigger it’s been very totally different, proper? Clearly it’s totally different in each single market, however for those who’re saying that the common hire value is up now, what did you say, uh, 12 months over 12 months proper now?

Igor:
Nicely, so really 12 months over 12 months we’re monitoring detrimental, barely detrimental hire development. And once more, that’s as a result of all this new provide, uh, is, is hitting the market. We’ve been in detrimental 12 months over 12 months hire development territory for, you understand, a bit bit over a 12 months now. Uh, we noticed in our hire index, the, the height rents had been in August of 2022. And, and we nonetheless haven’t sort of crawled again to that place, however these hire declines actually concentrated in locations like Texas, Florida, um, and a number of the markets which are constructing probably the most, you take a look at the leaderboard for hire development and it’s really dominated by lots of Midwest markets, proper? <snicker>, I don’t know when the final time was that the Midwest was dominating the, the US hire development leaderboards, however locations like Cleveland and Louisville, grand Rapids, Milwaukee, uh, these aren’t sort of at present massive new provide markets. Uh, they usually’re really nonetheless seeing some sturdy hire development. So we’ve had occasions the place lots of the US strikes collectively, however that is definitely a time the place totally different, uh, totally different markets are seeing very totally different experiences. So I is likely to be saying, Hey, it’s a bit bit detrimental, however somebody in Austin or Raleigh is likely to be feeling that it’s really fairly detrimental and, and, and mm-hmm, <affirmative> pricing energy has actually declined. And, and a few of us in Midwest northeast may really be, be feeling a reasonably sturdy hire development market.

Dave:
Simply two fast questions. One, while you say detrimental, how, how far are we off peak from August, 2022?

Igor:
Yeah, 2%. So only for context, we’re nonetheless 22% above the place we had been March, 2020, heading into the, the pandemic, however, however 2% off peak. So we primarily kinda reset to a brand new stage. There’s nearly no likelihood that we sort of revert to 2019 rents, however hire development has evaporated. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it’s sort of been like a, you understand, sort of suppose, consider a balloon that escapes the room and goes to a room with a better ceiling and bounces round there for some time.

Dave:
And is that this simply multifamily or is that this every thing?

Igor:
So we observe primarily multifamily single household is, you understand, additionally not booming when it comes to rents proper now, however I feel it’s seeing stronger hire development shouldn’t be feeling as direct stress from this new development. And the brand new development increase is actually concentrated in, in, in multifamily. So I feel the nearer you might be to the brand new provide that’s hitting the market, uh, simply when it comes to, you understand, how probably renters are to have you ever of their selection set together with a a, a brand new lease up, uh, that’s figuring out sort of how a lot of an, of an impact this new provide’s having on rents and, and the way cool the market feels for for sure property.

Dave:
I’m glad you introduced that up as a result of it’s a query I’m at all times occupied with is in so some ways industrial actual property and residential actual property simply act in another way.

Igor:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Dave:
However hire is one space the place I really feel like within the Venn diagram of CRE and residential, there’s like some overlap.

Igor:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Dave:
And so does that multifamily provide glut affect single household house rents or duplex rents, for instance?

Igor:
Sure, I feel, I feel it, it definitely does. It doesn’t have an effect on it as a lot, you understand, the shut, once more, the nearer you might be, the nearer that substitution impact can be. However you understand, lots of renters go into their searches and not using a cussed desire for multifamily single household. A whole lot of renters go into their searches saying, Hey, I don’t even know if I’ll discover a place in my price range in any respect. What’s on the market?

Dave:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Igor:
And so lots of renters are actually selecting between, it at all times comes down to love the, the choice making course of is gonna decide what’s ha what occurs within the macro stats. So you’ve renters in Denver which are pondering, yeah, I’ll take a single household house or a, a multifamily unit, like, let’s see what they’ve to supply, let’s see what the rents are. And so meaning they do find yourself competing on value even when they’re not the closest substitutes.

Dave:
I’m hoping Igor you’ll be able to assist me clarify one thing that could be very complicated. <snicker>
<snicker>. So
We’re speaking a couple of multifamily provide acquire, proper? You, you clarify the circumstances nicely earlier than that, throughout the pandemic there’s these constructive elements for constructing multifamily housing. Mm-Hmm.

Igor:
<affirmative>.

Dave:
And now we’re saying rents are slowing as a result of there’s an excessive amount of multifamily housing on the identical time each different day within the newspaper. You examine how there’s a housing scarcity in the USA. Are you able to assist me sq. these two seemingly contradictory information factors? <snicker>?

Igor:
Yeah, completely. I imply, I feel there’s a, there’s a timeframe part after which there’s a persona or demographic part. You already know, typically the analogy I’ll give, this can be a very California analogy. ’trigger we had been going by means of a drought, uh, just a few whereas, just a few months. You, you’ll be able to have a interval of heavy rain, it fills up the reservoirs a bit, however on the, you understand, the, the storm passes and also you’re nonetheless in a drought. Um, I feel that’s actually what lots of these markets are, are, are feeling. And so what meaning is on the margins, you’ll see rents fall, however they won’t fall to the diploma that perhaps they’d in a, in a extra unconstrained market that had, um, uh, extra constructing alternative or much less restriction on, on development. You may see that, uh, with the households which are out there right this moment, they’re feeling lots of choices.
However, uh, there are lots of households that aren’t being created as a result of the inexpensive stock isn’t there. For instance, one, one group I at all times type of level to, as a result of I feel they’re so vital within the housing market, we’ve got a big inhabitants of younger adults residing at house, residing with their mother and father, proper? So 17% of 25 to 34 12 months olds stay at house with their mother and father. We final noticed that in 1940, proper? Only for context. Uh, and so you’ve lots of people sitting on the sidelines of the housing market as a result of they primarily both can’t afford it or wish to put their cash, cash elsewhere. They usually don’t even make it into statistics about renters as a result of they’re, they’re not renters but. They’re, they’re, they’re residing at house. They’re not taking part out there, however totally different market circumstances can definitely draw them in. Uh, and that creates an enormous kinda alternative for a extra dynamic housing market as nicely. So I feel it’s only a query concerning the scale that you just’re taking a look at. The extra you zoom out, the extra the image seems unders provided.

Dave:
That’s so useful. And I really like that analogy of a flood. Clearly nobody needs a flood, but it surely’s sort of the scenario, proper? You already know, throughout a flood you’ve approach an excessive amount of water. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. However on the finish of it, you continue to won’t have sufficient water, which is basically what you’re saying is going on. That’s an excellent solution to put it. Thanks. Now we have to take a break, however after we’re again, I’m gonna ask Igor when he expects new multifamily provide to drive up and what meaning for rents within the close to future.
We’re again with condominium listing chief economist, Igor Popov. One of many issues that I actually like as an analyst and an investor about multifamily and about rents is that while you’re speaking concerning the provide downside is you by no means know what’s gonna occur within the economic system, however you sort of know what’s occurring with multifamily provide. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> as a result of individuals apply for permits and it takes years to construct multifamily. And so it’s why even in 2022, lots of analysts and economists had been saying, Hey, hire development is gonna decelerate as a result of we all know this glut of provide is approaching now. The place a minimum of the place I’m sitting in 2024, I’m nearly pondering the other’s gonna occur. You already know, beginning when in 2022 and charges went up, constructing circumstances fully modified, and now the pipeline for brand new provide appears fully dry. To butcher our analogy even additional, we’re going right into a drought once more when it comes to new provide, initially, is that the way you see it as nicely?

Igor:
Sure. That’s, that’s how I see it. And I feel the questions are round when it can come and the way lengthy it’ll final. Um, I feel it’s a, it’s a when and never an if as a result of you understand, we’re, we’re residing by means of an enormous provide wave proper now, and there’s not one other one approaching the heels of it. And we’re seeing that in multifamily permits coming down, completions outpacing permits by a really sturdy fee. There’s some disagreement about this, however I feel my, my view is that 2025 will nonetheless really feel rather a lot like 2024 when it comes to ample provide coming on-line. Once we get into 2026, it’s fairly clear that the models that may make {that a} provide wealthy 12 months, they’re simply not breaking floor on the identical fee. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that, that, that would wish. Now the rate of interest dynamics are gonna decide how lengthy that’s going to final or fee’s gonna come down sufficient to the place there’s really gonna be sort of a, a wholesome pipeline coming in after that. However, um, that, that continues to be to be, to be seen.

Dave:
Yeah. It’s, it’s attention-grabbing to, to type of take into consideration as a result of when you can see it coming, it’s onerous to type of stability all the various variables, clearly single household provide, demand, rates of interest, the labor market, it’s, it’s complicated. So though you see this, uh, dearth of development occurring, the implications aren’t tremendous clear. However Igor, I’m curious, I’m gonna put you on the spot. Do you’ve a forecast or any ideas on how hire development will play out within the subsequent few years?

Igor:
I feel subsequent 12 months will nonetheless be very sluggish 12 months for hire development. Primarily. I feel the, this actually wholesome provide pipeline, it’s not gonna be all launched this 12 months. So I feel you’re nonetheless gonna see lots of new lease ups hitting the market, particularly within the Sunbelt, uh, locations like Austin, Colorado Springs, uh, and the mountain west, uh, the Florida markets. Um, and you understand, once more, demand is more durable to foretell, however I feel that, you understand, with charges coming down, I feel that’ll give some, some increase. So demand has been actually wholesome, however I, I don’t suppose it’ll be so dramatic that it’s going to actually overpower, uh, the type of tug of conflict with, with, with provide. After which I feel issues will actually begin to decide again up from a hire development perspective, perhaps within the late 2025, however definitely in, in, in 2026 now. We’ll see what occurs. I, you understand, these previous few years have been, uh, nice for researchers, dangerous for forecasters

Dave:
<snicker>, yeah. One shock after one other.

Igor:
Yeah, precisely. One shock after one other. And it’s, you understand, who’s the least improper? However I do suppose that from what I’m seeing, the seesaw between provide and demand remains to be going to be, you understand, comparatively balanced, however nonetheless geared in direction of provide subsequent 12 months and definitely by means of the tip of this 12 months. As a result of I, I, I feel that we’re the, the housing market can be so seasonal that I feel when you, when you sort of miss the go round of summer season transferring season, it’s onerous to generate lots of warmth. Um, and the market, I feel coming into the cool months, of us that haven’t stuffed vacancies, property administration corporations that want to type of get greater occupancy earlier than the vacations are gonna be reducing rents. Um, after which the query is actually gonna be round how sturdy can demand be to sort of counteract the provision that’s nonetheless being launched from the pipeline come spring, summer season transferring season of 2025.

Dave:
Thanks for baking a daring prediction. I ask everybody on the present to make a prediction. Not everyone seems to be keen to do it. <snicker>, while you say resuming hire development in 2025, do you assume, nicely, like, you understand, this elusive thought of a traditional market, like may we perhaps simply see three to five% hire development, such as you type of we’re coming to count on within the, within the 20 tons a minimum of?

Igor:
I feel, I feel so. I feel we’re type of oscillating a a round that. I feel we’ll get again to that sooner or later. <snicker>, um, uh, we’re not gonna be simply, uh, uh, seesaw between excessive hire development or declines for a very long time, however that’s the place I must be trustworthy and say, I’ve made that prediction earlier than and it’s taken longer than I feel many people thought to type of get again to one thing that feels extra like a, a clip at which rents are rising in keeping with different costs and output within the economic system. Proper. Which is actually sort of what, what I feel regular would appear to be.

Dave:
Superior. Nice. Nicely, Igor, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right this moment. This has been a brilliant, uh, useful context and lesson on purple development within the economic system. Is there anything, uh, that you just’ve been engaged on a division listing, you or your group that you just suppose our viewers of actual property traders ought to know?

Igor:
Oh, nicely, I imply, we’ve got a ton of, uh, you understand, instruments, information for obtain. Um, and, and so yeah, for those who go to the condominium listing analysis weblog, simply condominium listing.com/analysis, I’ll put in a plug. Uh, plenty of, uh, you’ll be able to observe our newest, newest experiences and, and likewise information releases there. So

Dave:
Igor, this has been an enormous assist. Thanks once more for becoming a member of us right this moment.

Igor:
Thanks a lot. I had lots of enjoyable. Thanks Dave.

Dave:
In fact. And thanks all a lot for listening. I’m Dave Meyer for BiggerPockets and we’ll see you quickly for one more episode of the BiggerPockets podcast.