Liberal media symbiosis in motion: Jeffrey Goldberg. editor-and-chief of The Atlantic and host of the PBS present Washington Week with The Atlantic, appeared as a visitor on Wednesday’s PBS Information Hour program to debate his personal anonymously sourced Atlantic hit piece, “Trump: ‘I Want the Form of Generals That Hitler Had.’”
Goldberg was serving up allegations concerning the former president on how he admired the best way Adolf Hitler may depend on his generals, plus a fair less-plausible story concerning the former president refusing to pay for the funeral of “an effing Mexican” soldier.
Information Hour anchor Geoff Bennett segued from the night’s lead marketing campaign story, a lot of which was dedicated to a New York Occasions audio interview of Gen. John Kelly, former Trump White Home chief of workers and present liberal media navy hero of the day. Kelly in contrast Trump to a fascist based mostly on feedback the previous president made about Hitler that nobody else apparently heard — alleged statements made throughout a presidency now 4 years previous.
And that is nothing new from Kelly both: Curtis Houck revealed that Kelly first leveled his “Hitler” claims in August 2022 in a e book for husband-and-wife reporting workforce Peter Baker (New York Occasions) and Susan Glasser (The New Yorker).
Kelly additionally featured in Goldberg’s story, as Bennett eagerly famous.
Anchor Geoff Bennett: As we simply heard, retired four-star Basic John Kelly, who was one in all Donald Trump’s White Home chiefs of workers, informed The New York Occasions, Donald Trump would rule like a fascist if reelected. Kelly additionally spoke to “The Atlantic’s editor in chief, Jeffrey Goldberg, for a brand new piece which quotes Donald Trump as as soon as having stated: “I want the form of generals that Hitler had.”
Goldberg can be moderator of Washington Week With The Atlantic right here on PBS and joins us now….So John Kelly confirmed to you that Trump had stated he wished navy management confirmed him the identical form of deference that Hitler’s Nazi generals confirmed him throughout World Conflict II, individuals who had been completely loyal to him that adopted orders, Trump is quoted as saying….
Goldberg delivered a lecture on capital-D Democracy geared toward Trump.
Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-and-chief, The Atlantic: Nicely we’ve got identified for a number of years from different studies, background studies primarily, that Trump, notably in moments of excessive pressure — assume the 2020 George Floyd unrest — has expressed frustration that, in a democracy, generals cannot simply be ordered to do issues that they take into account to be unlawful or immoral….
Bennett: ….Did John Kelly categorical considerations about how Donald Trump would govern in a second time period, particularly on condition that there’ll seemingly be fewer guardrails in a second time period than existed within the first one?
Goldberg: ….He is searching for obedience. That is the factor that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Structure, to not the president. That is what he is searching for, private loyalty. And we all know that from many different discussions we’ve got heard round him….
Subsequent got here Goldberg’s (also-anonymously sourced) story relating to U.S. Military Non-public Vanessa Guillen, a daughter of Mexican immigrants who was murdered by a fellow soldier at Fort Hood. Trump had promised the household he’d personally pay for her funeral, however then, in response to Goldberg’s supply:
Bennett: ….you write that Trump grew to become offended — quote – ‘It would not value 60,000 bucks to bury an effing Mexican.’ He turned to his chief of workers, Mark Meadows, and issued an order: ‘Do not pay it.’ Later that day he was nonetheless agitated. ‘Are you able to consider it?’ he stated, in response to a witness, ‘effing individuals making an attempt to tear me off.'” Based on your reporting, how did individuals within the room reply to that?
Goldberg was obliged to notice that others “within the room” denied it ever occurred, so his nameless supply should have extra-sensitive ears.
Goldberg: ….Clearly, different individuals within the room, together with Meadows and Kash Patel, who was the chief of workers to the secretary of protection — the performing secretary of protection on the time, as a result of he had simply fired Mark Esper — are denying that this occurred and issued statements that saying that Donald Trump was very supportive of the household. The very fact stays that he did not pay. However there is a cut up. Mark Meadows has come out and stated that this did not occur. However I’ve nice confidence in my sources and within the notes that I’ve seen.
One other one who refuted the nasty, racist portrayal of Trump’s conduct as president, two weeks earlier than the 2024 election, was Guillen’s personal sister Mayra, on X.
This phase was delivered to you partially by Shopper Mobile.
A transcript is accessible, click on “Broaden.”
PBS Information Hour
10/23/24
7:07:54 p.m. (ET)
Geoff Bennett: As we simply heard, retired 4-Star Basic John Kelly, who was one in all Donald Trump’s White Home chiefs of workers, informed The New York Occasions, Donald Trump would rule like a fascist if reelected.
Kelly additionally spoke to The Atlantic’s editor in chief, Jeffrey Goldberg, for a brand new piece which quotes Donald Trump as as soon as having stated: “I want the form of generals that Hitler had.” Goldberg can be moderator of “Washington Week With The Atlantic” right here on PBS and joins us now. Thanks for being right here.
Jeffrey Goldberg, Moderator, “Washington Week With The Atlantic”: Thanks.
Geoff Bennett: So John Kelly confirmed to you that Trump had stated he wished navy management confirmed him the identical form of deference that Hitler’s Nazi generals confirmed him throughout World Conflict II, individuals who had been completely loyal to him that adopted orders, Trump is quoted as saying.
Stroll us by means of that a part of your reporting.
Jeffrey Goldberg: Nicely we’ve got identified for a number of years from different studies, background studies primarily, that Trump, notably in moments of excessive pressure — assume the 2020 George Floyd unrest — has expressed frustration that, in a democracy, generals cannot simply be ordered to do issues that they take into account to be unlawful or immoral.
He had a frustration with clearly the generals he had employed into his Cupboard, Jim Mattis and so forth. However he additionally had frustrations with the Pentagon itself. And so these expressions of want to be extra like Hitler and have Hitler’s relationship along with his generals got here out in these moments of pressure, and, once more, particularly round that George Floyd space, the place Trump has been cited as saying, “Why cannot you simply go shoot them, shoot them within the legs?” is what he stated to Mark Esper, the previous secretary of protection.
And that is what’s so fascinating about it. When John Kelly defined to Donald Trump, amongst different issues, that Hitler’s generals repeatedly tried to assassinate him, Donald Trump confirmed himself to be impervious to that data and stated, no, no, no, no, that is not true.
So Kelly grew increasingly more annoyed with Trump’s incapacity to know his function or what Hitler did.
Geoff Bennett: And John Kelly’s feedback do not exist in a vacuum as a result of they’re the newest in a line of warnings from former Trump Cupboard officers and high aides about how Donald Trump views the presidency and the way he would train energy if reelected.
Did John Kelly categorical considerations about how Donald Trump would govern in a second time period, particularly on condition that there’ll seemingly be fewer guardrails in a second time period than existed within the first one?
Jeffrey Goldberg: Sure, properly, that is — the belief that we’ve got to make is that the form of particular person Donald Trump put within the first time period, particularly at the start, Jim Mattis, Rex Tillerson, John Kelly, he has realized from his — quote, unquote — “errors” and can get people who find themselves extra compliant.
He is searching for obedience. That is the factor that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Structure, to not the president. That is what he is searching for, private loyalty. And we all know that from many different discussions we’ve got heard round him.
When it comes to what persons are anticipating in a second time period, I feel it is honest to say that not simply John Kelly, however a large swathe of people that labored within the nationwide safety space, from John Bolton to H.R. McMaster to many others, have expressed various levels of concern that the guardrails will likely be off subsequent time and that Donald Trump will attempt to do the issues that he wasn’t — quote, unquote — “allowed to do” within the first go-around.
So, sure, they’re. They’re extraordinarily nervous about it, which is why I feel you hear increasingly more of this discourse over the past couple of weeks.
Geoff Bennett: You additionally report on this piece that Donald Trump, then-President Trump, in July 2020, he promised to cowl the funeral value of 20-year-old U.S. Military Non-public Vanessa Guillen, who had been bludgeoned to demise by a fellow soldier at Fort Hood, however he reneged months later after inquiring about the fee throughout an Oval Workplace assembly.
And also you write that Trump grew to become offended — quote — “‘It would not value 60,000 bucks to bury an effing Mexican.’ He turned to his chief of workers, Mark Meadows, and issued an order: ‘Do not pay it.’ Later that day he was nonetheless agitated. ‘Are you able to consider it?’ he stated, in response to a witness, ‘effing individuals making an attempt to tear me off.'”
Based on your reporting, how did individuals within the room reply to that?
Jeffrey Goldberg: Nicely, my sources had been within the room and so there have been some individuals who had been upset about it, clearly, and I’ve contemporaneous notes taken within the room that mirror the form of shock.
Keep in mind, it is surprising, however solely to a level should you labored for him for some time, as a result of there’s numerous, for example, emotion that coursed by means of that White Home. Clearly, different individuals within the room, together with Meadows and Kash Patel, who was the chief of workers to the secretary of protection, the performing secretary of protection on the time, as a result of he had simply fired Mark Esper, are denying that this occurred and issued statements that saying that Donald Trump was very supportive of the household.
The very fact stays that he did not pay. However there is a cut up. Mark Meadows has come out and stated that this did not occur. However I’ve nice confidence in my sources and within the notes that I’ve seen.
Geoff Bennett: What does this counsel about Donald Trump?
Jeffrey Goldberg: He was triggered by this in a few methods.
Clearly, we all know that the topic of Mexico and Mexicans is a delicate one to him. It will go all the best way again to 2015, when he was warning the nation about Mexican rapists coming throughout the border. That is been a by means of line. And, clearly, and that is the bigger level of the story, he has problem expressing admiration in personal settings and admiration for troopers.
He — when he reads from a teleprompter, he says the appropriate issues and he has proven sympathy to sure teams of troopers up to now. However his relationship with the navy — this goes again to my reporting that he referred to as World Conflict I veterans who had misplaced their lives suckers and losers.
He has a really difficult relationship with nationwide service and with the troopers in a method that we’ve not seen in different presidents.
Geoff Bennett: Jeffrey Goldberg, thanks a lot for being with us. We respect it.
Jeffrey Goldberg: Thanks.